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CJB
Senior Modder



Lino Lakes
MN
USA

1589 Posts

Posted - 08/17/2010 :  17:31:03  Show Profile  Visit CJB's Homepage
Well that sure simplified things.
Rev. E


67.73 KB

_____________________________________________________________________

I'm not sure why I have so many projects unfinished, but this one is a prime candidate for 24v esc I think. Picked up from a CL ad I posted a few weeks back. At first, I thought I'd been had, as I didn't check it out when I picked it up. I was in a hurry and it just got tossed in the truck. When I was unloading it at home, I noticed both rear wheels spun freely. No way - they took the gearboxes out, I thought. Well, I tore it all down this afternoon to find:


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94 KB

Still there. Well, most of it anyway. A few things that struck me during teardown is there are a few useful connectors on the wiring harness that I'll be able to reuse, as well as a relay. There are some switches on the front (I'm assuming it shuts down if it thinks someone is riding on the front) that went to the relay. I didn't bother digging the switches out, just cut the wires.


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Body is in good shape (with the exception of some warranty return marker on the rear) and the headlights look PERFECT for modding.


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Almost as if FP is actually listening to us. This is the first Monster Traction vehicle I've had, so some of this may seem normal to some of you but to me, it's uncharted waters.

So. Plan - 24v (2x12) ESC (I have a YK48-2 here that was for the racecar project - I don't wanna talk about it) with a thumb throttle and foot brake. I'll replace the broken 15Ts with 17s, BMX tire mod (or maybe just atv tires) headlights, tail lights, and if I can come across another winch donor, I'll do Powered Winch version 2. I already have enough 10awg wire to tie up a herd of cattle, so GAME ON. If I can't get the marker off the decals, I'll pick up a new sheet if they still make it. I like the camo look even though Chloe says, "eww... it's a boys truck. I'm NOT riding that" When she sees the speed, she'll ride it.


12V Lil Jeep; 24v Race Car Project (abandoned); Red Wrangler (WIP);18v Police Silverado
Polaris 2X ; Polaris 700; Xtreme Machine ; 12v Super 6 Firerock
Gaucho Grande; Tinkerbell Ninja; 12v S6 Trail Rider; Brute Force 24v

Edited by - CJB on 09/23/2010 17:55:38

blake711
Advanced Modder

Skiatook
OK
USA



2622 Posts

Posted - 08/17/2010 :  18:10:04  Show Profile
Holy cow I have never seen a gearbox/wheel mauled like that.

Please sign up at new version of forum at http://forum.modifiedpowerwheels.com/
complexity is the enemy of reliability
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CJB
Senior Modder

Lino Lakes
MN
USA



1589 Posts

Posted - 09/19/2010 :  16:10:06  Show Profile  Visit CJB's Homepage
Made some progress this weekend. Started the wiring and got it all cleaned and painted up. Used fusion white under a red/purple metal flake. I think it looks pretty sharp. Only minor mod required to fit the second battery.



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12V Lil Jeep; 24v Race Car Project (abandoned); Red Wrangler (WIP);18v Police Silverado
Polaris 2X ; Polaris 700; Xtreme Machine ; 12v Super 6 Firerock
Gaucho Grande; Tinkerbell Ninja; 12v S6 Trail Rider; Brute Force 24v
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jparthum
Senior Modder

(77627) Nederland
Texas
USA



2272 Posts

Posted - 09/19/2010 :  17:04:42  Show Profile
That looks awesome!

I've gotta start trying some of these fancy paints.



(pics link to threads)

Fast, Reliable, and Cheap... Pick any two.
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hotrodtodd
Expert Modder

Delhi
OH
USA



985 Posts

Posted - 09/19/2010 :  17:31:57  Show Profile  Visit hotrodtodd's Homepage
That looks good! I like that paint

Lifted Metal Frame JeepPower Drivers Trike
Bigfoot
Worksite Gator
Driveway Racer
Handy Manny 6v quad
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CJB
Senior Modder

Lino Lakes
MN
USA



1589 Posts

Posted - 09/20/2010 :  09:57:45  Show Profile  Visit CJB's Homepage
Thanks. I've ordered a new controller and a thumb throttle for this. I like the idea of the thumb throttle and a foot brake. I also ordered a hand brake but not sure if I'll end up using it.

The LED wiring is going to be a bit different than I'm used to. The controller has outputs for headlight and brake light, but it outputs 24v. I picked up some 24v coil relays I'll use to run a 12v tap to the lights and stuff. Other than all that, this should be pretty basic.

Drive train is 19T, 24v ESC (LBD14) This thing should cruise pretty good. I'll be doing the BMX tire mod as well since the tires are pretty much bald.

12V Lil Jeep; 24v Race Car Project (abandoned); Red Wrangler (WIP);18v Police Silverado
Polaris 2X ; Polaris 700; Xtreme Machine ; 12v Super 6 Firerock
Gaucho Grande; Tinkerbell Ninja; 12v S6 Trail Rider; Brute Force 24v
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12vwiz
Expert Modder

Mobile
AL
USA



505 Posts

Posted - 09/20/2010 :  14:28:56  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by CJB


The LED wiring is going to be a bit different than I'm used to. The controller has outputs for headlight and brake light, but it outputs 24v. I picked up some 24v coil relays I'll use to run a 12v tap to the lights and stuff. Other than all that, this should be pretty basic.


CJB, Looking GOOD!

Thinking out loud
If the controller's light harness has two wires coming out, one wire should be the trigger/switch lead that actually turns the lights on/off(most pieces of electronics that Ive seen uses the + as the trigger but this would need to be verified) and the other wire is a pass through or fixed lead. If you wire you your toy with a common + instead of common - the output trigger for your lights could be either 24v or 12v depending on where you placed your negative wire. Placing the lights - wire on the stock controller plug liked designed would give you 24v as stated. Placing it at the non common 12v - would give you 12v lighting output with no relays required, limited only to the controller's light output current rating.

My first mod - john deer gator On Hold
Peg Gator LHR shifter Wiring diagram
Big Foot - driver relocation In progress
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CJB
Senior Modder

Lino Lakes
MN
USA



1589 Posts

Posted - 09/20/2010 :  16:29:45  Show Profile  Visit CJB's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by 12vwiz

quote:
Originally posted by CJB


The LED wiring is going to be a bit different than I'm used to. The controller has outputs for headlight and brake light, but it outputs 24v. I picked up some 24v coil relays I'll use to run a 12v tap to the lights and stuff. Other than all that, this should be pretty basic.


CJB, Looking GOOD!

Thinking out loud
If the controller's light harness has two wires coming out, one wire should be the trigger/switch lead that actually turns the lights on/off(most pieces of electronics that Ive seen uses the + as the trigger but this would need to be verified) and the other wire is a pass through or fixed lead. If you wire you your toy with a common + instead of common - the output trigger for your lights could be either 24v or 12v depending on where you placed your negative wire. Placing the lights - wire on the stock controller plug liked designed would give you 24v as stated. Placing it at the non common 12v - would give you 12v lighting output with no relays required, limited only to the controller's light output current rating.



Always thinkin'. I like that. I'll play around with it.

Thanks!

EDIT: While I'm at it, anyone have a good diagram for parallel charging a series set-up? Work has my brain fried on a daily basis. I spent the day reviewing and editing gerber files for a 6 layer PCB.

12V Lil Jeep; 24v Race Car Project (abandoned); Red Wrangler (WIP);18v Police Silverado
Polaris 2X ; Polaris 700; Xtreme Machine ; 12v Super 6 Firerock
Gaucho Grande; Tinkerbell Ninja; 12v S6 Trail Rider; Brute Force 24v

Edited by - CJB on 09/20/2010 17:01:56
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Starwriter
Journeyman Modder

Springfield
OR
USA

131 Posts

Posted - 09/21/2010 :  19:27:57  Show Profile
I spent quite a while tracing it out and I couldn't find any problems. However, one thing that could be an issue is that if the key is turned on with the charger connected, it would feed 24V to the charger. I think I found a fix. Swap wires 87 and 30 on RY3. Then connect the + charge wire to 87a. This will disconnect the charger when the key is on. It looks good in my head. See if it looks good drawn out.
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Starwriter
Journeyman Modder

Springfield
OR
USA

131 Posts

Posted - 09/22/2010 :  13:55:39  Show Profile
I like your changes. It would be cool to use one of the big red emergency stop switches like on equipment, but they're only rated at 10 amps. You could put it in series with the key switch. That would indirectly turn off RY3. There's lots of them on ebay, if you search for "emergency stop switch". On the other hand, if you teach the kid to turn off the key in the event of a "stuck throttle", that would be a better learning experience for real life. Of coarse it's unknown how anyone will react in a panic situation. Just throwing out some ideas.
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12vwiz
Expert Modder

Mobile
AL
USA



505 Posts

Posted - 09/22/2010 :  15:48:17  Show Profile
All looks good to me too!!

My first mod - john deer gator On Hold
Peg Gator LHR shifter Wiring diagram
Big Foot - driver relocation In progress
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jparthum
Senior Modder

(77627) Nederland
Texas
USA



2272 Posts

Posted - 09/22/2010 :  15:59:13  Show Profile
Since you're already using a relay for brake lights, couldn't you just feed your 12V into 87a of RY4 instead of using a resistor?

EDIT: Sorry, I though purple was 24V.


But along that train of thought; Couldn't you run 24V to the running lights in series, and use a 12V relay to switch the brake lights to parallel? If so, that should eliminate the resistor and the less common 24V relay.



(pics link to threads)

Fast, Reliable, and Cheap... Pick any two.

Edited by - jparthum on 09/22/2010 16:14:38
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CJB
Senior Modder

Lino Lakes
MN
USA



1589 Posts

Posted - 09/22/2010 :  16:30:50  Show Profile  Visit CJB's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by jparthum

Couldn't you run 24V to the running lights in series, and use a 12V relay to switch the brake lights to parallel? If so, that should eliminate the resistor and the less common 24V relay.



You could, but since they're at the opposite end of the vehicle as eachother, that sounds like kind of a headache. I already have the relay anyway.

Note to self: Kawasaki Brute Force handlebars are apparently larger than a scooter's handlebars. Thumb throttle and hand brake do not fit.


Now, I suppose I could get some 7/8" OD tube stock and make my own handlebars...

At least I have a scooter controller that should work now. I can get started on the wiring.

quote:
Originally posted by Starwriter

I like your changes. It would be cool to use one of the big red emergency stop switches like on equipment, but they're only rated at 10 amps. You could put it in series with the key switch. That would indirectly turn off RY3. There's lots of them on ebay, if you search for "emergency stop switch". On the other hand, if you teach the kid to turn off the key in the event of a "stuck throttle", that would be a better learning experience for real life. Of coarse it's unknown how anyone will react in a panic situation. Just throwing out some ideas.



I could put in an additional fail-safe relay before RY3 on the line headed to RY3-30. Normally closed, opened by a E-Stop button... Kind of shoots my 'simplicity' goal.


--OR--

I could just stop being lazy and disconnect the MF'n batteries to charge them. Not like it's too hard to lift up the seat...

I like the way I have it set up, but as I'm looking down the line for Fwd/Rev and brake, I see 3 more relays if I do it Divinar's way. I just don't have that kind of room in this thing. My original plan was wiring it the normal PW way for F/R. I see no reason that shouldn't work. I'd be a little nervous about shorting the white and blue wires coming out of the ESC for braking though. That doesn't mess with the controller? That's why I was planning on using the brake input and a fail-safe. Especially, since I plan on having two brake options - hand and foot.

Gimmie some input here!

12V Lil Jeep; 24v Race Car Project (abandoned); Red Wrangler (WIP);18v Police Silverado
Polaris 2X ; Polaris 700; Xtreme Machine ; 12v Super 6 Firerock
Gaucho Grande; Tinkerbell Ninja; 12v S6 Trail Rider; Brute Force 24v

Edited by - CJB on 09/22/2010 16:57:32
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Divinar
Moderator

San Jose 95123
CA
USA



3057 Posts

Posted - 09/22/2010 :  19:51:57  Show Profile
As requested in a PM, I'm chiming in

I think you may be over-thinking it a bit.

If your batteries are "matched", I'd use a 1.5 amp 24v charger - they're $15. It's the equivalent of a 3A charge @ 12v - so it would take about 8 hours to charge two 12AH batteries.

I like the idea of the 24v relays to use the switches in the controller.

Feel free to steal the brake relay from my Grape Gaucho diagram. I used a "normal" 12v bosch relay.
30 was the white line out to the motors (well, to the F/R relays)
87a (NC) was the white line from the controller
87 (NO) was the the blue line from the controller.

When shorted, the motors are in a loop, the controller is out of the loop.
(Oh, and I tapped off the same trigger wire for the brake lights, too!)


I'm using a 24v to 12v converter to provide 12v for LED's:
http://www.virtualvillage.com/dc-dc-converter-in-24v-out-12v-001531-037.html
That one is currently out of stock, here's another one that's a bit of overkill, but still cheap:
http://www.virtualvillage.com/24v-to-12v-dc-dc-car-power-supply-converter-30a-007808-040.html

Sure, you could just tap off 12v from one battery, but then you can't do the 24v charging trick.

Then I use a separate set of LED's for tail lights and brake lights, all behind one reflector.
(It's not finished yet, and my work on the Grape Gaucho is stopped due to moving - but it runs!)

I'll do a quick revision on my 18v (3)6v relay mess too - I think I can get it down to three or four relays that would drop to 12v when turned "off", or the charger is plugged in...


Escalade (Rubber tires, LED lights, Key switch, Remote Kill, wings. Wings?)
Lil Wrangler (2WD, 12v, Lights), Dora Jeep (Super-6 @ 12v, lights), Jeep Enforcer turned Aftershock (18v, WIP),
Grape Gaucho A151 (24v, scooter controller, WIP)
KFX Quad (Remote Kill), Crushmeister! (Silverado), Limited Edition Jeep (Stock)
Kawasaki Mojave 250 (Stock), PP Gator (Lights), Home Depot Loader, Lightning McQueen (Stock)
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jparthum
Senior Modder

(77627) Nederland
Texas
USA



2272 Posts

Posted - 09/22/2010 :  19:52:36  Show Profile
I like the idea of having the emergency switch act as a circuit breaker in case of a stuck/melted relay, but like Starwriter said you would need something to handle a lot of current. And I also like the idea of using relays for gear selection instead of running high current through the switches, especially when doubling the current of the original design. It would be nice to be able to get the batteries and all of the high current circuitry near the motors, so the short runs would make it easy and cheap to have overkill on the wire gauge, like 6 AWG.



(pics link to threads)

Fast, Reliable, and Cheap... Pick any two.
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Divinar
Moderator

San Jose 95123
CA
USA



3057 Posts

Posted - 09/22/2010 :  20:29:04  Show Profile
My brake relay will lock up the wheels even if the controller has shorted to full throttle.

So if it does try to run away, stepping on the brake will stop it - at least well enough to have someone disconnect it.

But if you search, you can find a 30A switch or three:
http://www.newark.com/eaton/7576k2/toggle-switch/dp/11M1796
http://www.antonline.com/p_40393-GP_340434.htm?sID=GP (Probably can't use the LED though)



Escalade (Rubber tires, LED lights, Key switch, Remote Kill, wings. Wings?)
Lil Wrangler (2WD, 12v, Lights), Dora Jeep (Super-6 @ 12v, lights), Jeep Enforcer turned Aftershock (18v, WIP),
Grape Gaucho A151 (24v, scooter controller, WIP)
KFX Quad (Remote Kill), Crushmeister! (Silverado), Limited Edition Jeep (Stock)
Kawasaki Mojave 250 (Stock), PP Gator (Lights), Home Depot Loader, Lightning McQueen (Stock)
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Starwriter
Journeyman Modder

Springfield
OR
USA

131 Posts

Posted - 09/22/2010 :  20:43:41  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by CJB


Note to self: Kawasaki Brute Force handlebars are apparently larger than a scooter's handlebars. Thumb throttle and hand brake do not fit.


Now, I suppose I could get some 7/8" OD tube stock and make my own handlebars...



Saw off the ends of the Brute Force handlebars and weld about 5" of 7/8" straight tubing on.

quote:
[i]
I could put in an additional fail-safe relay before RY3 on the line headed to RY3-30. Normally closed, opened by a E-Stop button... Kind of shoots my 'simplicity' goal.




Most emergency stop switches are normally closed, so wired in series with the key switch would serve the same purpose. Keep in mind you are not going to have a stuck relay and a shorted controller at the same time.



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Starwriter
Journeyman Modder

Springfield
OR
USA

131 Posts

Posted - 09/22/2010 :  21:31:13  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by CJB

My original plan was wiring it the normal PW way for F/R. I see no reason that shouldn't work.



With a dremel and a small piece of sheetmetal, you can move the L/H switch in line with the F/R switch, so the shifter does both switches at the same time. Put the lockout screw in and now shifting F/R has 1 switch for each motor. Use another F/R wiring harness, and that part of the wiring is done.


58.73 KB

Edited by - Starwriter on 09/23/2010 12:35:03
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CJB
Senior Modder

Lino Lakes
MN
USA



1589 Posts

Posted - 09/23/2010 :  04:28:03  Show Profile  Visit CJB's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by jparthum

I like the idea of having the emergency switch act as a circuit breaker in case of a stuck/melted relay, but like Starwriter said you would need something to handle a lot of current.



How about this in place of the key switch. Pull out for on, push in for E-Stop/off. 75A should about do it.

http://order.waytekwire.com/productdetail2/M50/44015/EXTRA%20HEAVY%20DUTY%20PUSH%20PULL/

Or here's an E-stop - 24V 250A A bit pricey and overkill...
http://order.waytekwire.com/productdetail2/M50/44037/EMERGENCY%20STOP%20/%20BATTERY/



12V Lil Jeep; 24v Race Car Project (abandoned); Red Wrangler (WIP);18v Police Silverado
Polaris 2X ; Polaris 700; Xtreme Machine ; 12v Super 6 Firerock
Gaucho Grande; Tinkerbell Ninja; 12v S6 Trail Rider; Brute Force 24v

Edited by - CJB on 09/23/2010 04:32:28
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jparthum
Senior Modder

(77627) Nederland
Texas
USA



2272 Posts

Posted - 09/23/2010 :  08:10:45  Show Profile
That looks like a really good price for that first one. I did a quick search on Newark.com and they only list four that are over 20A, and the cheapest is $32 + shipping.

A good thing about that type, is that it is similar to the blade engage/disengage switch on riding mowers - Good training for a future mower.



(pics link to threads)

Fast, Reliable, and Cheap... Pick any two.
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chozian
Expert Modder

Meridianville
AL (35759)
USA



631 Posts

Posted - 09/23/2010 :  09:17:05  Show Profile  Visit chozian's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by Divinar

My brake relay will lock up the wheels even if the controller has shorted to full throttle.

So if it does try to run away, stepping on the brake will stop it - at least well enough to have someone disconnect it.

But if you search, you can find a 30A switch or three:
http://www.newark.com/eaton/7576k2/toggle-switch/dp/11M1796
http://www.antonline.com/p_40393-GP_340434.htm?sID=GP (Probably can't use the LED though)





Would the Lighted SPST Rocker Switch for $3.99 at http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103602 be a possible replacement for the one you linked from antonline.com?

Radio Shack also has a SPST 12VDC 40A On-Off Toggle Switch for $3.99 at http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3042775.


Chris Hozian

"We may one day have both fame and fortune, and learn that neither is basic for true success and complete happiness." ~The New Era, August 1989, pages 4-5.

12V PW Lightning McQueen @ 18V :: 12V PW Red Harley-Davidson Motorcycle @ 18V :: 12V Peg Jeep Apache @ 18V :: Super 6 PW CAT Tough Loader @ 12V :: Super 6 PW Firerock Jeep Wrangler @ 12V :: Super 6 PW Ford F-150 @ 12V :: 6V PW Dora Get Set Go-Kart @ 12V :: 6V Rand Spider-Man Lil Quad @ 12V :: 6V PW Dora Lil Quad (Sold) :: 12V Dumar Yamaha Raptor 660R Quad :: Super 6 PW Barbie Trail Rider Quad :: 12V Yellow Peg John Deere Worksite Gator :: 12V Green Peg John Deere Worksite Gator :: 12V PW Classic Chrome Harley-Davidson Motorcycle (Sold) :: 12V Little Tikes Hummer H2 (Sold) :: 12V PW Ford Mustang :: 12V PW Chevy Silverado 1500 (Traded) :: 12V PW Barbie Cruisin' Tunes Jeep :: 6V PW Barbie Blitz Lil Wrangler 4x4 Jeep :: 6V PW Hot Wheels Lil Wrangler 4x4 Jeep (Sold)
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CJB
Senior Modder

Lino Lakes
MN
USA



1589 Posts

Posted - 09/23/2010 :  11:23:17  Show Profile  Visit CJB's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by Starwriter

quote:
Originally posted by CJB


Note to self: Kawasaki Brute Force handlebars are apparently larger than a scooter's handlebars. Thumb throttle and hand brake do not fit.


Now, I suppose I could get some 7/8" OD tube stock and make my own handlebars...



Saw off the ends of the Brute Force handlebars and weld about 5" of 7/8" straight tubing on.



You're assuming I know how to weld...

12V Lil Jeep; 24v Race Car Project (abandoned); Red Wrangler (WIP);18v Police Silverado
Polaris 2X ; Polaris 700; Xtreme Machine ; 12v Super 6 Firerock
Gaucho Grande; Tinkerbell Ninja; 12v S6 Trail Rider; Brute Force 24v
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Divinar
Moderator

San Jose 95123
CA
USA



3057 Posts

Posted - 09/23/2010 :  12:45:16  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by Divinar

I'll do a quick revision on my 18v (3)6v relay mess too - I think I can get it down to three or four relays that would drop to 12v when turned "off", or the charger is plugged in...



OK, here's a draft version (Although I'm sure 12vwiz can eliminate at least one relay )


To summarize:

Key switch off:
  • Batteries drop back to (2) 12v in parallel, so you could charge them at 6A, for a full charge in 4 hours
  • 12v Accessory circuit is "off"
  • Controller is cut off

Key switch on:
  • Batteries go into series (24v)
  • 12v accessory circuit is "on"
  • 24v to controller

Charger connected:
  • Disconnects key switch and controller - vehicle cannot be driven!
  • See "Key switch off" above



Escalade (Rubber tires, LED lights, Key switch, Remote Kill, wings. Wings?)
Lil Wrangler (2WD, 12v, Lights), Dora Jeep (Super-6 @ 12v, lights), Jeep Enforcer turned Aftershock (18v, WIP),
Grape Gaucho A151 (24v, scooter controller, WIP)
KFX Quad (Remote Kill), Crushmeister! (Silverado), Limited Edition Jeep (Stock)
Kawasaki Mojave 250 (Stock), PP Gator (Lights), Home Depot Loader, Lightning McQueen (Stock)

Edited by - Divinar on 09/23/2010 13:11:32
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CJB
Senior Modder

Lino Lakes
MN
USA



1589 Posts

Posted - 09/23/2010 :  13:03:45  Show Profile  Visit CJB's Homepage

Is the only difference the fact that this diagram will not auto-detect the charger? I like that idea.


40.68 KB


12V Lil Jeep; 24v Race Car Project (abandoned); Red Wrangler (WIP);18v Police Silverado
Polaris 2X ; Polaris 700; Xtreme Machine ; 12v Super 6 Firerock
Gaucho Grande; Tinkerbell Ninja; 12v S6 Trail Rider; Brute Force 24v

Edited by - CJB on 09/23/2010 13:14:41
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Divinar
Moderator

San Jose 95123
CA
USA



3057 Posts

Posted - 09/23/2010 :  13:14:45  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by CJB

I like the diagram, but help me out here... What's the difference between your diagram and the one at the top of the page? Only functional difference I see is I have a 2 pin charge port and one less relay. What am I missing?? 12vWiz may even be able to knock this down to two relays...



Not too much, really - the top relay is the charge relay.
If there's current on the third pin of the charge port, it cuts power to the rest of the system, overriding the key switch.
(It takes about 1/4 amp to do this)

The other three relays are pretty similar to what you've got, but they make sure that the accessory tap is turned off with the key switch, too.


Escalade (Rubber tires, LED lights, Key switch, Remote Kill, wings. Wings?)
Lil Wrangler (2WD, 12v, Lights), Dora Jeep (Super-6 @ 12v, lights), Jeep Enforcer turned Aftershock (18v, WIP),
Grape Gaucho A151 (24v, scooter controller, WIP)
KFX Quad (Remote Kill), Crushmeister! (Silverado), Limited Edition Jeep (Stock)
Kawasaki Mojave 250 (Stock), PP Gator (Lights), Home Depot Loader, Lightning McQueen (Stock)
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CJB
Senior Modder

Lino Lakes
MN
USA



1589 Posts

Posted - 09/23/2010 :  13:16:51  Show Profile  Visit CJB's Homepage
I like editing my posts when someone's replying with quote.

How does that extra .25A used by the charge relay coil affect the charge rate??


The cool thing that 12vwiz pointed out in a different thread, is the purple line marked "-12v" is a -12 for the red wire (to B1) OR a +12 for the black wire (to B2) You can go either way. That kind of blew my mind. I never thought about it like that.


12V Lil Jeep; 24v Race Car Project (abandoned); Red Wrangler (WIP);18v Police Silverado
Polaris 2X ; Polaris 700; Xtreme Machine ; 12v Super 6 Firerock
Gaucho Grande; Tinkerbell Ninja; 12v S6 Trail Rider; Brute Force 24v

Edited by - CJB on 09/23/2010 13:27:36
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Divinar
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San Jose 95123
CA
USA



3057 Posts

Posted - 09/23/2010 :  13:28:10  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by CJB

I like editing my posts when someone's replying with quote.

How does that extra .25A used by the charge relay coil affect the charge rate??



Warning! Math ahead!

If you have a pair of 12v 12AH batteries.. and we'll assume you've run them down to just about dead, so they would need a full charge...

12AH + 12AH = 24AH
Charger can output 6A.
So it should take 4 hours to charge them.
Riiiiight! What's an amp?
Be quiet, Noah!

If 1/4 amp is driving the relay, that leaves only 5.75 Amps to charge the batteries.
So 24AH/5.75A = 4.17391304 H = 4 hours, 10.4 minutes.


Escalade (Rubber tires, LED lights, Key switch, Remote Kill, wings. Wings?)
Lil Wrangler (2WD, 12v, Lights), Dora Jeep (Super-6 @ 12v, lights), Jeep Enforcer turned Aftershock (18v, WIP),
Grape Gaucho A151 (24v, scooter controller, WIP)
KFX Quad (Remote Kill), Crushmeister! (Silverado), Limited Edition Jeep (Stock)
Kawasaki Mojave 250 (Stock), PP Gator (Lights), Home Depot Loader, Lightning McQueen (Stock)
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CJB
Senior Modder

Lino Lakes
MN
USA



1589 Posts

Posted - 09/23/2010 :  17:00:07  Show Profile  Visit CJB's Homepage
Stupid math...

No big deal then, eh?

I was thinking of replacing RY1 and RY2 with a DPDT if I could find one big enough. Well, I think I found one...


67.48 KB

It has a 12vdc coil and says the contacts are rated for 50A @ 277 VAC. How does one convert that to a 12 or 24v DC rating? This sucker is huge, and the contacts are about the same size as the screws for the inputs.

12V Lil Jeep; 24v Race Car Project (abandoned); Red Wrangler (WIP);18v Police Silverado
Polaris 2X ; Polaris 700; Xtreme Machine ; 12v Super 6 Firerock
Gaucho Grande; Tinkerbell Ninja; 12v S6 Trail Rider; Brute Force 24v
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Divinar
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San Jose 95123
CA
USA



3057 Posts

Posted - 09/23/2010 :  17:07:32  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by CJB

Stupid math...

No big deal then, eh?

I was thinking of replacing RY1 and RY2 with a DPDT if I could find one big enough. Well, I think I found one...


67.48 KB

It has a 12vdc coil and says the contacts are rated for 50A @ 277 VAC. How does one convert that to a 12 or 24v DC rating? This sucker is huge, and the contacts are about the same size as the screws for the inputs.



Holy crap!
Where did you get it? And how much does it cost?

Ahem!
Rule of thumb is to go to watts - so 50A * 277V = 13,850 watts.
13850 watts / 24v = ~577 Amps.

Now, I don't quite believe those numbers, but it's definitely over the 30 amps you'll be drawing!


Escalade (Rubber tires, LED lights, Key switch, Remote Kill, wings. Wings?)
Lil Wrangler (2WD, 12v, Lights), Dora Jeep (Super-6 @ 12v, lights), Jeep Enforcer turned Aftershock (18v, WIP),
Grape Gaucho A151 (24v, scooter controller, WIP)
KFX Quad (Remote Kill), Crushmeister! (Silverado), Limited Edition Jeep (Stock)
Kawasaki Mojave 250 (Stock), PP Gator (Lights), Home Depot Loader, Lightning McQueen (Stock)
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CJB
Senior Modder

Lino Lakes
MN
USA



1589 Posts

Posted - 09/23/2010 :  17:32:01  Show Profile  Visit CJB's Homepage
Picked it up at a surplus store. It was $10.

I think they had one or two left.


12V Lil Jeep; 24v Race Car Project (abandoned); Red Wrangler (WIP);18v Police Silverado
Polaris 2X ; Polaris 700; Xtreme Machine ; 12v Super 6 Firerock
Gaucho Grande; Tinkerbell Ninja; 12v S6 Trail Rider; Brute Force 24v
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12vwiz
Expert Modder

Mobile
AL
USA



505 Posts

Posted - 09/23/2010 :  18:36:32  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by CJB

Stupid math...

I was thinking of replacing RY1 and RY2 with a DPDT if I could find one big enough. Well, I think I found one...

It has a 12vdc coil and says the contacts are rated for 50A @ 277 VAC. How does one convert that to a 12 or 24v DC rating? This sucker is huge, and the contacts are about the same size as the screws for the inputs.

Sweet...If the price is right and the coil draws a reasonable amount of current when latched.

It would be best to replace RY1 and RY3 those are the main load carriers. RY2 has a small load on it. I see you have already changed it







My first mod - john deer gator On Hold
Peg Gator LHR shifter Wiring diagram
Big Foot - driver relocation In progress
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CJB
Senior Modder

Lino Lakes
MN
USA



1589 Posts

Posted - 09/23/2010 :  21:25:29  Show Profile  Visit CJB's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by 12vwiz

quote:
Originally posted by CJB

Stupid math...

I was thinking of replacing RY1 and RY2 with a DPDT if I could find one big enough. Well, I think I found one...

It has a 12vdc coil and says the contacts are rated for 50A @ 277 VAC. How does one convert that to a 12 or 24v DC rating? This sucker is huge, and the contacts are about the same size as the screws for the inputs.

Sweet...If the price is right and the coil draws a reasonable amount of current when latched.

It would be best to replace RY1 and RY3 those are the main load carriers. RY2 has a small load on it. I see you have already changed it




I had thought about doing RY1 and RY3, but if my original relay sticking closed fear were to be realized, I'd have two relays stuck shut, as the two would be closed by a single coil. I felt it was safer to leave RY3 by itself. I have a 12v 40A for that. It should be fine.

12V Lil Jeep; 24v Race Car Project (abandoned); Red Wrangler (WIP);18v Police Silverado
Polaris 2X ; Polaris 700; Xtreme Machine ; 12v Super 6 Firerock
Gaucho Grande; Tinkerbell Ninja; 12v S6 Trail Rider; Brute Force 24v
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CJB
Senior Modder

Lino Lakes
MN
USA



1589 Posts

Posted - 09/24/2010 :  21:04:39  Show Profile  Visit CJB's Homepage
Thank you everyone for your advice and input on my inexperice on the ESC dilemma. It all definitely helped! So getting back to the project, I made some MAJOR progress today. Actually, if it weren't for the fact that the wheel hubs haven't arrived yet, it'd be done.

Wiring, lights, graphics... DONE.

So... The long and the short of it is I pretty much used my diagram, except I mutated it with Divinar's triple-threat relay diagram for F/R/B. Except I used the 24v relays I already bought, wired up with 12vwiz's + = - theory. And I'll be a monkey's uncle, it all worked the first time around!

Features:

24v ESC (LBD14)
2x 12v 12ah
Charge port
Foot brake
Hand brake
Thumb throttle
4x oznium headlights
tail light
brake light (works for both foot and hand brake)
Diamond plate graphics

pics:


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All that remains is slapping on the rear wheels when the hubs arrive, and modifying the handlebars to accept the 7/8" OD throttle and hand brake. I think I'll use Starwriter's idea and lop off the ends and have someone weld some 7/8 onto it. Grind it smooth, and paint it all black.

I think I'm most proud of this build than any other to date. The only one that rivals it in complexity is the Polaris 700, and that was only because of the amount of accessory wiring to be done.

Again, thank you everyone for your ideas. It takes a village to make a kick-ass power wheels.

12V Lil Jeep; 24v Race Car Project (abandoned); Red Wrangler (WIP);18v Police Silverado
Polaris 2X ; Polaris 700; Xtreme Machine ; 12v Super 6 Firerock
Gaucho Grande; Tinkerbell Ninja; 12v S6 Trail Rider; Brute Force 24v
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jparthum
Senior Modder

(77627) Nederland
Texas
USA



2272 Posts

Posted - 09/24/2010 :  21:16:21  Show Profile
Awesome job CJB!




(pics link to threads)

Fast, Reliable, and Cheap... Pick any two.
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12vwiz
Expert Modder

Mobile
AL
USA



505 Posts

Posted - 09/27/2010 :  09:34:31  Show Profile
Ditto that!!


My first mod - john deer gator On Hold
Peg Gator LHR shifter Wiring diagram
Big Foot - driver relocation In progress
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CJB
Senior Modder

Lino Lakes
MN
USA



1589 Posts

Posted - 09/27/2010 :  10:21:31  Show Profile  Visit CJB's Homepage
Thanks, guys. Got the wheel driver hubs in and took it out on it's first test run. Boy this thing scoots. I think I burned up a motor though. I have some new ones I'll put on and see if that helps.


12V Lil Jeep; 24v Race Car Project (abandoned); Red Wrangler (WIP);18v Police Silverado
Polaris 2X ; Polaris 700; Xtreme Machine ; 12v Super 6 Firerock
Gaucho Grande; Tinkerbell Ninja; 12v S6 Trail Rider; Brute Force 24v
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Divinar
Moderator

San Jose 95123
CA
USA



3057 Posts

Posted - 09/27/2010 :  10:24:14  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by CJB

Thanks, guys. Got the wheel driver hubs in and took it out on it's first test run. Boy this thing scoots. I think I burned up a motor though. I have some new ones I'll put on and see if that helps.



That may be the fastest motor burnout ever....


Escalade (Rubber tires, LED lights, Key switch, Remote Kill, wings. Wings?)
Lil Wrangler (2WD, 12v, Lights), Dora Jeep (Super-6 @ 12v, lights), Jeep Enforcer turned Aftershock (18v, WIP),
Grape Gaucho A151 (24v, scooter controller, WIP)
KFX Quad (Remote Kill), Crushmeister! (Silverado), Limited Edition Jeep (Stock)
Kawasaki Mojave 250 (Stock), PP Gator (Lights), Home Depot Loader, Lightning McQueen (Stock)
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CJB
Senior Modder

Lino Lakes
MN
USA



1589 Posts

Posted - 09/27/2010 :  10:37:43  Show Profile  Visit CJB's Homepage
It was an old motor. If I was thinking, I would have changed them both out before closing up the rear end.


12V Lil Jeep; 24v Race Car Project (abandoned); Red Wrangler (WIP);18v Police Silverado
Polaris 2X ; Polaris 700; Xtreme Machine ; 12v Super 6 Firerock
Gaucho Grande; Tinkerbell Ninja; 12v S6 Trail Rider; Brute Force 24v
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bader
New Member

furulund

Sweden

36 Posts

Posted - 09/27/2010 :  14:23:25  Show Profile
Ha ha ha.
Awsome. Please put up some video, always fun to watch kids have fun.

Greate job, you realy packed the batterys tightly.

Why isn't the rides like this stock? ;)

http://www.modifiedpowerwheels.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=20528
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CJB
Senior Modder

Lino Lakes
MN
USA



1589 Posts

Posted - 10/02/2010 :  11:18:42  Show Profile  Visit CJB's Homepage
Finished the handlebar mod!

Got some 7/8 OD tube cold rolled steel from onlinemetals.com. Cut off 4-5" of stock handlebar. Cut the steel to size, inserted into the existing handlebar and pounded the out of it to get it in as far as it would go. Drilled a small hole through the union and put in a screw.

Looks fantastic. I'll be taking all this apart again and painting the handlebars black.




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12V Lil Jeep; 24v Race Car Project (abandoned); Red Wrangler (WIP);18v Police Silverado
Polaris 2X ; Polaris 700; Xtreme Machine ; 12v Super 6 Firerock
Gaucho Grande; Tinkerbell Ninja; 12v S6 Trail Rider; Brute Force 24v

Edited by - CJB on 10/02/2010 11:21:57
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CJB
Senior Modder

Lino Lakes
MN
USA



1589 Posts

Posted - 10/02/2010 :  15:04:10  Show Profile  Visit CJB's Homepage


Gearboxes & motors held up just fine until she decided to do powerslides down the hill.

12V Lil Jeep; 24v Race Car Project (abandoned); Red Wrangler (WIP);18v Police Silverado
Polaris 2X ; Polaris 700; Xtreme Machine ; 12v Super 6 Firerock
Gaucho Grande; Tinkerbell Ninja; 12v S6 Trail Rider; Brute Force 24v
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chozian
Expert Modder

Meridianville
AL (35759)
USA



631 Posts

Posted - 10/06/2010 :  09:52:31  Show Profile  Visit chozian's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by CJB

Finished the handlebar mod!

Got some 7/8 OD tube cold rolled steel from onlinemetals.com. Cut off 4-5" of stock handlebar. Cut the steel to size, inserted into the existing handlebar and pounded the out of it to get it in as far as it would go. Drilled a small hole through the union and put in a screw.

Looks fantastic. I'll be taking all this apart again and painting the handlebars black.




Wow! Yeah, that does look fantastic. Great job!


Chris Hozian

"We may one day have both fame and fortune, and learn that neither is basic for true success and complete happiness." ~The New Era, August 1989, pages 4-5.

12V PW Lightning McQueen @ 18V :: 12V PW Red Harley-Davidson Motorcycle @ 18V :: 12V Peg Jeep Apache @ 18V :: Super 6 PW CAT Tough Loader @ 12V :: Super 6 PW Firerock Jeep Wrangler @ 12V :: Super 6 PW Ford F-150 @ 12V :: 6V PW Dora Get Set Go-Kart @ 12V :: 6V Rand Spider-Man Lil Quad @ 12V :: 6V PW Dora Lil Quad (Sold) :: 12V Dumar Yamaha Raptor 660R Quad :: Super 6 PW Barbie Trail Rider Quad :: 12V Yellow Peg John Deere Worksite Gator :: 12V Green Peg John Deere Worksite Gator :: 12V PW Classic Chrome Harley-Davidson Motorcycle (Sold) :: 12V Little Tikes Hummer H2 (Sold) :: 12V PW Ford Mustang :: 12V PW Chevy Silverado 1500 (Traded) :: 12V PW Barbie Cruisin' Tunes Jeep :: 6V PW Barbie Blitz Lil Wrangler 4x4 Jeep :: 6V PW Hot Wheels Lil Wrangler 4x4 Jeep (Sold)
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